Part 2 Analysis of 1 Timothy 2:11-15
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Part 2 Analysis of 1 Timothy 2:11-15
A layman's analysis
This is the fourth analysis in a series of examining what scripture says about men and women. If you haven't read the first parts, above are links to the intro and other analyses. Verses Under More Examination: 1 Timothy 2:11-15 “11 Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve; 14 and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. 15 Yet she will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith and love and holiness, with self-control.” ESV Question: What do verses 14-15 add to Paul's argument? How do they tie into the previously discussed conclusion that this is talking about young wives not being elders over their older husbands? Possible Meaning #1 for verse 14 about Eve being deceived: Paul is saying Eve's belief in Satan's lies and Adam's non-belief in Satan's lies proves that all women have a type of gullibility or propensity to sin that men don’t and that this propensity disqualifies women/young wives from this type of authoritative teaching over men/older husbands. Major Problems: I see many issues with implying that Eve believed Satan and Adam didn’t. Whenever I've heard Adam and Eve's sin explained, it’s explained as the lust of the eyes, “that it was a delight to the eyes", the lust of the flesh, “the tree was good for food”, and the pride of life, “tree was to be desired to make one wise.” I’ve never heard it explained as: “Eve thought it was a delight to the eyes, but Adam didn’t; he wasn’t delighted. Eve thought it was good for food, but Adam didn’t; he knew it wasn’t good to eat. Eve thought she could be wise by eating the fruit, but Adam knew he wouldn’t be wise.” I don’t believe this is scriptural. More Problems: If Adam didn’t sin for the same reasons as Eve, why did he sin? We have to add some extra-biblical theorizing to follow this train of thought. Like Adam was afraid of living without Eve, which is being deceived about where security is found. Or Adam thought he could control the world through Eve, which is being deceived about true power. Or Adam was tired of being nagged, which is being deceived about where comfort comes from. Or Adam just wanted to please Eve, which is being deceived about how to make Eve happy. In all these options, Adam is still being deceived. Problems Aplenty: If man’s reason for sinning differed from Eve’s, I think that would be seen when Christ was tempted in the wilderness. Wouldn’t Satan tempt Jesus in the same way that Adam was tempted since they were both male? But, in fact, Christ's temptations mirror Eve's: lust of the eyes, lust of the flesh, pride of life.
Possible Meaning #2 for verse 14: Perhaps Paul is emphasizing that Satan chose to approach Eve because Satan knew he could trick Eve because of her seemingly more vulnerable nature or physical body. Satan's choosing Eve proves a difference in the natures between men and women that Paul thus links to not allowing younger wives to be elders over older husbands. Problems: This point seems to say that if Satan had spoken to Adam, Adam would not have fallen for the devil’s temptations. This seems like crazy talk to me. Would anyone actually say that Adam would've resisted the devil like Jesus did? This is having quite an inflated view of men that history doesn't seem to support. More Problems: If men are less likely to believe Satan’s lies than women wouldn’t the world be filled with more righteous men than women because fewer men would be falling for the devil’s lies? Even More Problems: Using Satan's actions to designate who ought to be an elder has very little Biblical support. Satan asked to sift Peter like wheat and yet Peter was a man of teaching authority. Satan asked to tempt Job, and Job's words were recorded to be a teaching authority forever. I don't think we should equate Satan's decisions with what God wants. When Satan tempted Ananias and Sapphira, both were asked to confess their sin and both were given the same consequence for giving in to Satan's temptation. One was not held more or less responsible than the other. Conclusion: Eve wasn't deceived because she was more gullible or had a nature that was more vulnerable to sin.
Possible Meaning #4 for verse 14: Perhaps Paul is saying that the curse of men ruling over women disqualifies young wives for elderhood. Problems: Using the curse as a basis for Church structure and order doesn't seem like the way Paul explains how we ought to operate in the life of spirit. Why would Paul use the curse as a reason to order behavior in the church? Didn’t Christ come to undo the curse? Aren’t we living in a world where Christian men no longer need to rule women as the curse describes? More Problems: Obeying the curse is also not something we, as Christians, must do. There's nothing wrong with finding ways to make childbearing not so painful. We have found solutions to working the earth. I think we were also meant to find ways for men and women to work together instead of ruling over one another. Granted, our striving will never reach completion this side of Heaven.
Possible Meaning #5 for verse 14: Perhaps Paul isn't highlighting that Satan chose to tempt Eve, but that Eve was merely deceived first. Adam was deceived also, but he was deceived second. Perhaps Paul is just saying that some things come before others. Problems: If there are problems to this, I don't see them. Support: This argument seems to follow the flow of Paul’s previous statement about men being created first. God made an order to this earth: because Adam was created first and thus older, older husbands have the authority. There was also an order to the fall : Eve was deceived first and became a transgressor first; Adam was deceived second and became a transgressor second. This seems to make the most sense to me, especially as the next sentence—“Yet she will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith and love and holiness, with self-control”— seems to reference that Eve's bearing children would save her and ultimately the world. Hmmm... seems like a reference to Jesus, Eve's ultimate offspring that would crush the head of the serpent.
Rethinking verse 12 AGAIN: I know we left verse 12 and 13 in the last post, but I just thought of something else. Maybe Paul isn't talking about wives being an elder over a husband, but rather saying that this particular type of authority isn't godly to use ever, man or woman. Perhaps this type of teaching authority is synonymous to belittling or assuming you know better or acting like you are God's gift to the world or acting independently of one another. Support: While the Greek word for "teach" here is used in various other places and doesn't describe something wrong, the Greek word for "to use authority over" means to arm oneself or act as an autocrat – literally, self-appointed, acting without submission.
Problems: If this type of authority is wrong for anyone to use, I don't think Paul would only forbid women to use it and then cite the order of creation and the order of deception. He might say something like, this isn't how Christ taught, or this is of the flesh, or this isn't honoring, or no one ought to appoint him or herself with authority like this. Solutions: Perhaps Paul means it's not right for wives to self-appoint themselves as elders to teach independently from their husbands. Just as man was made first and it wasn't good for him to be alone, Eve was deceived first and it wasn't good for her to be alone either. Oh wow! That's a different take. Wouldn't it be interesting if Paul was actually saying men and women need to be elders together? This seems possible. Let's see how that works: 1 Timothy 2:11-15 (Option 1 Abby Version) “11 Let a young wife learn quietly with all submissiveness. 12 I generally do not permit a young wife to teach or to exercise elderhood independently from an older husband; rather, she is to remain in submission. 13 For Adam was formed first and it wasn't good for him to be alone, so God made Eve. 14 and Adam wasn't deceived alone but Eve was deceived when she was alone and became a transgressor. 15 But despite their being un-united, God made it so that the two became one flesh and bore descendants thus producing the savior who would save the unity between husband and wife—if they continue in faith and love and holiness, with self-control.” Conclusion 1: Seems like too much word twisting is need for this paraphrase. Here's what I think is a better option, incorporating the conclusions I came to from the previous post. The ESV follows for your comparison. 1 Timothy 2:11-15 (Option 2 Abby Version) “11 Corinthians, let your young women learn quietly with all submissiveness. 12 I do not permit, in these cases, a young wife to authoritatively teach her older husband; rather, she is to remain in submission. 13 This is just the right order of things: just like Adam was older than Eve. 14 Just like sin came into this world in a certain order too: Eve was deceived first and became the first transgressor. 15 Yet part of her curse was that her offspring would crush the serpent, thus saving them both—if husband and wife continue in faith and love and holiness, with self-control.” 1 Timothy 2:11-15 (ESV) “11 Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve; 14 and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. 15 Yet she will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith and love and holiness, with self-control.” Conclusion: So far, these passages do not seem to say what many claim that they say. But I don't feel my work is complete yet. More to come...